1.
虽然主创在幕后谈最后一幕戏时,说的是“野狗”,但 June 在车库前摔倒时,雪地上动物发出的显然是狼叫。所以我姑且先认定那是一头黑狼吧。如果错误,欢迎指正。
黑狼的隐喻,最开始我觉得可以是 Nick。June 上次生产时,身边环绕伴侣和挚友;Janine 生产时,所有的使女都感同身受地为她打气。谈到生产这幕时,June 的 扮演者 Moss 说,it's so ultimately about you and me, your partner, your best friend. 根本上,它事关你我、你的伴侣、你最好的朋友。所以黑狼会让我发散联想到 June 这次怀孕,无言陪伴她一路的 Nick。第一次出现,让 June 惊恐不安的黑狼,像不像她最开始认识的 Nick,一身黑衣,整个人意味不明?June 跌倒破了羊水,感受到她绝望的黑狼,像不像逐渐走近她以后,理解她、张开怀抱供她哭泣、与她共情的 Nick?连在最后紧要生产关头不得不消失这点,黑狼和 Nick 也一致。
但是,我觉得,其实黑狼也可以隐喻 June。生 Hannah 时,June 排斥母亲介绍的居家式“原始”生产,觉得有医院护士和药品保障才安全。母亲 Holly 说,你比你想象的坚强。Moira 为解尴尬,提起一个朋友在林子中小溪里生了孩子,还把一切youtube了啥滴。当一个人流落荒郊野林,被剥离电力、汽车一切代力手段,就被还原成了苍茫天地间的一个生灵,人最原始的面目。June 倒在地板上开始宫缩时,Moira 不经意提起的先例映照了她此刻的现实,母亲口耳相传的对女性本能力量的肯定,如同千千万万年之间母女口耳相传的生产体验,成为 June 唯一的支撑,是她这场奇迹产子所能紧紧抓住的唯一信念。
在这苍茫天地间,黑狼是一只动物,June 也是一只依赖原始本能的动物。June 刚刚被独自留下,她第一次遇见黑狼时,她对黑狼产生的恐惧和意外,不也正是被工业社会异化后,人面对大自然的疏离、陌生、和恐惧?美国 《现代生物学》 曾发表过狼科学家对狼嚎叫的研究成果。研究者认为,狼的嚎叫,并不是有压力的表现,而是反映了狼群中狼与狼之间关系的质量。头狼会受到更多的嚎叫召唤,一头狼会更多地嚎叫召唤自己的伴侣。June 跌倒破了羊水,在雪地上绝望低泣挣扎时,黑狼悲伤的目光,低缓的咕噜,还有那向天召唤的嚎叫,是否映射了对面人类的心境?这时的 June,已经不怕它了。而当最后 June 开枪召唤现代工业社会的帮助,黑狼也消失了。
2.
壁炉旁独自生产这场戏我特别喜欢。我觉得它既刻画了千千万万年来雌性动物、女性,承担的无人能够替代的生育痛苦,也如 Moira 扮演者所说,这部剧所讲的女性坚韧不拔,也通过这一幕、June 独自在密林弃屋中生产,集中体现出来。
3.
其他一些小细节也很有意思。譬如 Moira 试图打破 June 母女尴尬,插话那里很好笑。Serena 和 Fred 争吵互相指责,都被对方道出了一些真相:Fred 对现实的认知偏差与蠢钝,Serena 要的可不仅仅是 baby 而是权力野心。最后,June 生产过程中,Janine、众多使女和嬷嬷与 Moira、母亲 Holly 一起出现,是一种将女性整体作为生育主体的刻画。这一刻,女性不分嬷嬷与使女,基列不基列,众志成城。
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我还以为黑狼会袭击June。。然后被June拿铁锹敲死。。
对黑狼的解释很有意思,虽然我一直认为黑狼是June的母亲,但这种解读也很好,也自恰。
还有一处有意思的,就是June在镜子面前端详自己的身体。这是她自从怀孕以来,第一次对自己怀孕的身体有所掌控。之前逃亡期间还没显怀,回到waterford宅里她和她的孕肚就一直被割裂开来看,肚子被Aunt Lydia丈量,被各种人抚摸,而她作为肚子本身的主人却对这个肚子没有任何掌控能力。而这个场景和闪回线里,她在怀着Hannah的时候,Luke对她怀着孕的女性身体的赞美做了对照,在彼时,她是主体,肚子只是她主体的一部分,而在Gilead,肚子是主体,她只是个附属容器。我依稀记得,之前几集中Gilead不停有人在看到June的时候,只提到了Baby,"the baby is here"之类的,完全无视了June的存在。
樓主解釋的很棒了。我來貼一個官方解釋,基本和你提到的第三點差不多。Producer and writer Kira Snyder: But really, (the wolf) it's a signifier for June of wildness and resilience. She starts off being scared of the wolf and afraid of what it's gonna do to her. The wolf later is a moment of inspiration where she has a terrifying slip and fall outside the garage where her water breaks and the water breaking was, when you're having your second child, [a signal that] the baby is imminent. She's not going anywhere, even if she could get the [garage] door open; she's not going anywhere. Basically, she's having her lowest point. And the wolf there is a reminder she's also a wild thing. She has it in her to do this, so it gives her a little bit of the push that she needs to get back up on her feet and get into that house and have that child. At the end, she sees the wolf for the last time, when she fires the gun and scares the wolf away. She's returning herself to Gilead, to civilization, the same time the wolf has returned to wilderness. She's basically giving up on that promise of that wild and free sense of feeling.
别的不说,黑狼虽然稀有,但确实是存在的,且绝大多数在北美地区。科普是好的,但奚落就没必要了。附上维基百科链接。https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_wolf
我擅自觉得一下,黑狼代表自由和代表 June 也是一只依赖原始本能的动物,是不是可以归到思路类似啊?绝境下的自由,不受(基列)社会条条框框束缚的同时,也变成了天生地养。
对黑狼的解释很有意思,虽然我一直认为黑狼是June的母亲,但这种解读也很好,也自恰。
还有一处有意思的,就是June在镜子面前端详自己的身体。这是她自从怀孕以来,第一次对自己怀孕的身体有所掌控。之前逃亡期间还没显怀,回到waterford宅里她和她的孕肚就一直被割裂开来看,肚子被Aunt Lydia丈量,被各种人抚摸,而她作为肚子本身的主人却对这个肚子没有任何掌控能力。而这个场景和闪回线里,她在怀着Hannah的时候,Luke对她怀着孕的女性身体的赞美做了对照,在彼时,她是主体,肚子只是她主体的一部分,而在Gilead,肚子是主体,她只是个附属容器。我依稀记得,之前几集中Gilead不停有人在看到June的时候,只提到了Baby,"the baby is here"之类的,完全无视了June的存在。
我看到了你的解读。同意黑狼是 spiritual animial。是母亲的解读,也说得通的。其实在我的解读里,母亲也是通过“”你比你想象的坚强”一直陪伴着 June 的生产。
June 在镜子前端详自己的身体,我之前只理解为“分分钟能生的ready”,听你这么讲,好有道理,谢谢分享。
我觉得我俩都在为下一集commander josh的出现而暗自鸡冻着。。。。
看了E12的预告,对他的扮相有点小吃惊。这还是我干成了一件事尾巴翘到天上去,大大咧咧得瑟着让Donna "bring me finest donuts of all lands"的Josh 吗?23333
之前在 the post 里也见过他老相,但这这个 commander 的造型都有点儿认不出他了。
我还以为黑狼会袭击June。。然后被June拿铁锹敲死。。
同意,我是暂停仔细端详了一会儿…然后点了点头,恩,josh,你也有今天…但耳边还是响起了“I help write the law. I write the law. I make the law. I am the law!”
我觉得黑狼是代表对自由的向往。
我擅自觉得一下,黑狼代表自由和代表 June 也是一只依赖原始本能的动物,是不是可以归到思路类似啊?绝境下的自由,不受(基列)社会条条框框束缚的同时,也变成了天生地养。
我以为黑狼会被猎枪杀死,然后引来了别人,把june抓回去
我也觉得狼象征自由,很说得通:看见狼,说明你在野外,野外是危险的(你不知道会不会受到野兽攻击),但也是自由的(像Jack London《The Call of the Wild》),同时是自力更生的。
黑狼好像June内心里燃烧的火,自由,希望,以及孤身奋战的的绝望,那种落魄却怀有力量的呐喊。可以说黑狼是June生产时的分身,相同的处境,一样的狼狈,狂野和安静的各种复杂情绪的爆发。
让我为黑狼熏疼一秒
樓主解釋的很棒了。我來貼一個官方解釋,基本和你提到的第三點差不多。Producer and writer Kira Snyder: But really, (the wolf) it's a signifier for June of wildness and resilience. She starts off being scared of the wolf and afraid of what it's gonna do to her. The wolf later is a moment of inspiration where she has a terrifying slip and fall outside the garage where her water breaks and the water breaking was, when you're having your second child, [a signal that] the baby is imminent. She's not going anywhere, even if she could get the [garage] door open; she's not going anywhere. Basically, she's having her lowest point. And the wolf there is a reminder she's also a wild thing. She has it in her to do this, so it gives her a little bit of the push that she needs to get back up on her feet and get into that house and have that child. At the end, she sees the wolf for the last time, when she fires the gun and scares the wolf away. She's returning herself to Gilead, to civilization, the same time the wolf has returned to wilderness. She's basically giving up on that promise of that wild and free sense of feeling.
感谢分享。能看到制片编剧的官方解释,真是太棒了!
不得不佩服这部剧的制作,这么难言的象征,通过精心的摄影、剪辑、情节设置、当然还有演员的表演,最终成功地 show 给观众,既没用对话也没用旁白这些 tell 的方式,太牛了。
狼的嚎声,june努力分娩的吼声,听上去那么相似——她们在原始环境中的生存和繁衍,是一体的。
我在看的时候想到了《野性的呼唤》,里面也有一只狼,发散思维强行扯上关系就是 “意味着对自由的不放弃,坚持到底”
把 Kira Snyder 的采访翻出来读了一遍。关于最后生产中的闪回,也很值得一读,搬运一下。
(原文地址:https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/handmaids-tale-season-2-episode-11-holly-explained-1124000)
[The Hollywood Reporter] Aside from production considerations, you mentioned the flashback component of the episode and that really comes to a head during the birth scene. Why was it important to touch back to these earlier memories that Offred is experiencing as she's giving birth to Holly by herself?
[Kira Snyder] The intent there was to show her and have her understand and realize and remember that she's not alone. That there's something universal and primal about giving birth, so she's connected to everyone who's ever given birth. That's why we show her flashbacks to Hannah's birth, that's why we cut scenes of Janine giving birth to her daughter, even scenes from the Red Center where they're learning the official Gilead way of giving birth. All of that are the tools and the emotional community that she draws on to help her through this moment. So she's alone in the literal sense, but she's not alone in the larger universal, metaphorical sense.
[The Hollywood Reporter] Why did you feel it was important to bring those scenes from the Red Center into this? How does it intersect with the theme of the season, this idea that Gilead's within you?
[Kira Snyder] It's exactly that. We talk a lot in the room about identity and specifically of June's identity, because this season in particular we've been playing the tension between, is she June or is she Offred? Who is she really? And the thing about the Red Center is as awful as that experience is and as traumatizing as Aunt Lydia's instruction was to those women, it is something that she needs to know how to get through this, because they teach women how to give birth unmedicated, without doctors, without drugs, without anything besides their community of other handmaids and wives, as you saw in the birth scene. In a strange way, this unwelcome bit of instruction is useful to her.
It's also the importance of remembering that she did have friends [in Gilead]. Moira was there, but the June that can get through this moment in this episode is not the same June that gave birth to Hannah. That was the point of showing those two scenes in juxtaposition, where you have June giving birth to Hannah and she's surrounded by doctors and doulas, and she's got her friends and everyone was waiting on her and she's got everything she needs as opposed to now, where she is all she has, and she is all she needs. And that memory of the Red Center is part and parcel to all the things that she has learned since then to make her ready for this moment.
楼主虽然是自己的理解,不过觉得分析得很棒,从各个角度都讲了!这一集对有些人来讲没有讲什么,但是对我来说这一集非常精彩!尤其是最后生产那一段,感觉女主这一季演技比上一季更赞!这一季的使女似乎又承包了下一届艾美~各种开挂各种6到飞起!
👍👍👍👍
其实我是进来告诉你, 那是一条狗……
你咋狼狗不分呢?
狼是群体活动的,狗才是单只的。
狼的体型更大,耳朵更长,犬牙会外露。
而且, 你啥时候见过大黑狼?
狼是灰色的。
诶,妈呀,赶紧去补补动物世界吧。
意淫的那么起劲……
是的,这一集讲了女性生存面临最核心的一个问题:生产。这也是基列社会形态、是这部剧的一个最最中心位置的议题。用一整集,用女主在荒郊野林中独自面对这样的形式,来表达,是值得的。作为观众,我拿出的这一段时间去体会制作者的视角、接收他们传递的信息,丝毫没有浪费的感觉。
上一条回复补充一句:所以我对这一集叫“holly”,不仅解读为 June 的母亲 Holly 及她相关象征意义,也有冬青树 holly、神圣的 holy 相关含义的解读。
转一段微博上关于女性生产过程中出血的解释。
来源:https://weibo.com/3949671123/GnFQ52Zmd?type=comment#_rnd1530324388035(预警:原博中有胎盘的血腥图片,即博文中所说的图2。)
这条转发中所添加的图片,是博文中所说的图3。以下内容转发。
刘大可先生
今天 01:39 来自 微博 weibo.com 已编辑
一个成年人全身的血液大概有5000ml,女性还要更少,但在分娩后,产妇可能在24小时之内就失血500ml甚至1000ml以上——这就称为产后出血。即便在21世纪,每年也大概有8700万例产后出血,4.4万到8.6万产妇因此死亡,而在现代医学诞生以前,产后出血是成年妇女的头号死因。
但是即便没有发生产后出血,分娩也会带来持续上月的恶露不清,在现代卫生设施和抗生素出现以前也每每能给女性带来致命的感染,包括破伤风,在分娩后的数月乃至数年之内继续夺取妇女的生命。
所以老话才说,“女人生孩子就是在鬼门关走一遭”。
与很多人想象得不同,产后出血的原因并不是因为人类的胎儿多么庞大——胎儿庞大的哺乳动物比比皆是,比如按占母体比例计算,长颈鹿新生儿是人类的两倍大,但它们分娩几乎不出血(图1)。
实际上,人类几乎是唯一需要女性承受如此巨大的分娩风险的物种——而这追根究底,是因为几千万年前的一次“转基因”,使全人类的胎儿都“感染”了古老的病毒,而对母亲格外凶狠。
首先,分娩时的出血主要来自胎盘剥落后子宫内膜上出现的创面——人类的胎盘能长到菜盘子那么大,表面布满凸起的绒毛,深深扎入血管丰富的子宫内膜(图2就是人胎盘朝向母亲的那一面),而在过去的几个月中,胎盘表面的滋养细胞大规模地溶解子宫内膜中的动脉和静脉,使其破裂出血。胎盘就直接浸泡在新鲜的血液中,给胎儿汲取丰富的营养和氧气(图3是绒毛膜和胎盘的生长历程,那些不规则的暗红色区域就是母体血管破裂形成的血窦)——这样的胎盘在分娩时骤然撕掉,必然一大片血流滚滚,想止血都无从下手。
但是在整个哺乳动物纲,绝大多数类群的胎盘都不会如此严重地侵害母体的子宫内膜,很多类群甚至完全不伤害子宫内膜——在发育学的研究中,我们发现这是因为简鼻灵长目的胎盘表面有一层“变形虫”似的多倍体巨型细胞,称为“合胞体滋养层”。它们能在表面分泌胰蛋白酶的类似物,不断溶解子宫内膜,然后将上皮乃至血管壁的碎片吞入细胞内,迅速成长——就是图3中张牙舞爪的黄色多孔物。
而简鼻灵长目的胚胎会分化出这种细胞,是因为我们在胚胎发育的极早期会合成一种“合胞素”(图4),这种蛋白能让胚胎外表面的细胞只复制细胞核而不分裂,变成极富侵略性的食肉细胞——进一步的研究发现,制造合胞素的基因竟然来自2500多万年前的某种逆转录病毒——一种酷似HIV的病毒,它们能将自己的基因整合进宿主的基因,借此大量增殖,合胞素就是它们进入宿主细胞的利器。在当时的某次感染中,这些病毒将自己整合进了我们祖先的生殖细胞,从此成为我们基因组的一部分,逐渐地约束利用起来,专门在怀孕时提高子代的营养摄取效率。
作为比较,我们发现哺乳动物中凡是胎盘能侵蚀子宫内膜的类群,都不同程度地在进化史中感染过逆转录病毒,并且能在胚胎早期制造合胞素,图5展示了哺乳动物主要类群的胎盘类型和在它们基因中发现的逆转录病毒——然而即便如此,简鼻灵长类的胎盘仍然是对母亲下手最狠辣的,而人类由于胎儿头部最大,分娩时间最长,又是其中伤害最深的。
我们目前似乎还不太清楚这种血窦绒毛膜胎盘有多么显著的适应优势,但正是2500多万年来的母亲们付出的血肉代价,终于换来了今日的文明世界——在现代文明的庇护下,女性产后出血的概率和危害大幅降低,尤其异体输血从根源上挽救了无数年轻的母亲,以至于在现代社会,女性的平均寿命显著超过了男性,她们不但能抚养自己的儿女长大成人,庆祝他们的每一个生日,还能看着自己的孙子女进入新的家庭,享受天伦之乐。
*这条博摘自我的新问答《母亲的体内发生了什么,受精卵怎样长成一个人?》[O微博问答],在那里,你能更详细地了解怀孕前6周的各种变化。
别的不说,黑狼虽然稀有,但确实是存在的,且绝大多数在北美地区。科普是好的,但奚落就没必要了。附上维基百科链接。https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_wolf
狼,群居动物:
剧中的黑狗
会翻百科,不代表你懂得识别关键区别!
楼上有人贴出来官方解释是wolf了,没必要再说是狼是狗了。大家在讨论的是黑狼的隐喻和象征意义,楼上是狼是狗的争论恰好与此话题背道而驰
楼主对这部剧做了很多很有深度的解读啊,怎么现在豆瓣不更新了?
科普了,谢谢!
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